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Bird Flu Facts... are you ready?

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Speaking of mad cow.  I'm still pissed about the the whole "mad cow" prion disease from Europe in the Late 80's.  I served in Germany during the time frame the Red Cross has determined that prion disease was in its initial outbreaks.  The red cross won't take my blood anymore because of the possibility of prion diseases.  I have ALWAYS given blood at every request I was allowed (and a couple times more often during the first golf war).  But I can no longer give blood.  I sure wish they would come up with a final test for prions so that I can give blood again.  I hope I'm negative.  If the symptoms ever hit, it's a VERY unpleasant way to go.

 

As per the conversation.  I still feel that a pandemic is the most likely wide spread disaster scenario we will face in our lifetimes.  If it hits before or after a widespread economic depression is the mystery.  ;)

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Speaking of mad cow.  I'm still pissed about the the whole "mad cow" prion disease from Europe in the Late 80's.  I served in Germany during the time frame the Red Cross has determined that prion disease was in its initial outbreaks.  The red cross won't take my blood anymore because of the possibility of prion diseases.  I have ALWAYS given blood at every request I was allowed (and a couple times more often during the first golf war).  But I can no longer give blood.  I sure wish they would come up with a final test for prions so that I can give blood again.  I hope I'm negative.  If the symptoms ever hit, it's a VERY unpleasant way to go.

 

As per the conversation.  I still feel that a pandemic is the most likely wide spread disaster scenario we will face in our lifetimes.  If it hits before or after a widespread economic depression is the mystery.  ;)

 

~ I think a severe flu Pandemic that caused a large portion of the world's work force to call out sick for a couple of weeks at a time, could cause a global economic crisis. It doesn't have to kill a lot of folks to be serious. All it has to do is make a large portion of healthy folks too sick to work. I can tell you that the way they've downsized staffing in hospitals, ANY surge in intensive care capacity could not be dealt with. The 2009 pandemic was severe for a few folks, but honestly it didn't have the human PB2 gene to spread large viral loads of itself person to person very easily like every other pandemic influenza we've had over the centuries. So we lucked out. The few people who DID get large viral loads, and who did end up in intensive care for Months on end, if they lived, pushed us to the limit of what we could deal with. We had state officials calling us every week wanting a count of how many ventilators we had available in case another hospital needed them. There were National plans to triage ventilator patients and Ethics committes were put together in the event that they needed to decide who gets a ventilator, and who doesn't. Premature babies were not high on that list. Neither were old people. I had to sign a document saying they could force me to stay at work indefinitely if it came down to that. That's how they plan on handling a surge in patient capacity. No mention of hiriing more people.  censored.gif

They don't know how lucky they were. They saw their plan as a success because they handled a flu pandemic that still hasn't recombined into a human flu virus that has the ability to attack cells in the nose. THAT's what makes a flu virus deadly. Pandemic H1N1 still has an avian PB2 gene that couldn't attack unless it made it all the way to the lungs. Very little virus gets down that far. The unlucky patients (Mostly young adults) who happened to get a large viral load into their lungs, often died within a week. It blew up their lungs like a grenade going off.  :nono:  I've never seen anything like it. I hope I never will see anything worse. 

 

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I say withball of these mutaded germs like swine fluebbird flue mersa etc etc is a sigh of a couple things onbis how our need to clean as humanbhas gotten out of control. Yes clenlyness is important but germs to a levalbare important to. So this leadsbmento alsonbaleave that this is a sighn of a zombie apacolyps. Now it could also be thatbthe above mention illnisses are an attempt by the government at population control trying to eliminate to poor and middle class

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Even our healthcare industry as Advanced as it is, suffers from the same JIT issues (Workforce loss, medication delivery, electric dependence) etc that any of the rest of our "Systems" are dependent on. 

 

If we look back at the great depression, it was bad but there was some level of self sufficiency.  Another economic depression is going to be far worse due to the dependency on these systems and the much less prepared state of the general public.

 

I agree Taken, won't take a massive kill off, even just a regional pandemic that lasts for a couple of weeks could deplete resources and send us over the edge of our already precarious position.

 

It's scary to think about how easily the systems can be overwhelmed.  We can just prepare for the worst and hope for the best and we'll find our reality somewhere in between.

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I say withball of these mutaded germs like swine fluebbird flue mersa etc etc is a sigh of a couple things onbis how our need to clean as humanbhas gotten out of control. Yes clenlyness is important but germs to a levalbare important to. So this leadsbmento alsonbaleave that this is a sighn of a zombie apacolyps. Now it could also be thatbthe above mention illnisses are an attempt by the government at population control trying to eliminate to poor and middle class

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~ First of all, the age of infectious diseases in humans began a LONG LONG LONG time before hand sanitizer was ever invented. You sound like those PTA Moms at my kids school who thought that hand sanitizer caused the 2009 pandemic.  wacky115.gif 

 

Also, There's no such thing as MERSA, it's MRSA. No "E" in it. It's Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (That bug that causes staph infections). Methicillin is an antibiotic invented in 1960 after a lot of germs became resistant to the miracle drug, penicillin. Everytime you invent a new antibiotic to attack a certain bacteria  (by the way, Antibiotics don't work on viruses) if you use that antibiotic long enough, the bacteria will become resistant to it. It has NOTHING to do with soap and water or hand sanitizer, it's just what bacteria do when they are exposed to certain antibiotics Inside our bodies, and inside the bodies of farm animals who are exposed to WAY more antibiotics in their lives than humans are. That's probably where these antibiotic resistant germs come from. Even certain insect pests can become resistant to pesticides if they're exposed to them long enough. 

 

So basically, Antibiotics themselves Cause "Antibiotic resistant Super Bugs".  MRSA isn't the ONLY super bug out there. There are plenty of them we have to deal with in hospitals. There's penicillin resistant streptococcus pneumoniae, there's vancomycin resistent Enterococcus (VRE) (that's just three off the top of my head). As long as we keep throwing antibiotics at germs, we're going to have germs that learn to get past them. It's a constant battle in healthcare, and it's why your doctor won't prescribe antibiotics for people to keep on hand. Because when you use the wrong antibiotic, or you don't use it long enough, you contribute greatly to Bacterial resistance to those antibiotics.  cool14.gif 

 

So what do we do?  :unsure:  Infectious disease is still the number one killer of children on this planet. There are a lot of you on this website who might not have made it past childhood alive without antibiotics and vaccines (vaccines protect you from certain viruses). They save lives every single day.  :thumbup: 

 

Antibiotics were listed as one of the greatest human inventions of the millennium.  :thumbup:  But as long as we have them as a weapon, we'll Always have bacteria outsmarting us and learning how to get around that defense. How many times have you used an antibiotic for a few days, then you felt better and quit using it?  cool14.gif  You didn't use it long enough to kill ALL of the bacteria, THAT's how bacteria get exposed to low levels of antibiotics and THAT's how those bugs become resistant.

 

It has nothing to do with the Government, or Politics, or something we're doing by using hand sanitizer and soap,  happy061.gif  That's just part of the ongoing Microbe Warfare going on every single SECOND inside of you.  :guns: 

 

I have to foam my hands at least a hundred times a day (Probably more) with some bad ass microbial killer substance. No germs are becoming resistant to THAT Stuff.  :nono:  (Of course we can't eat it either, or put it on a cut... believe me, I've done that by accident and you learn real quick where all of your paper cuts are when you accidently get that stuff on them.)  8|  Anyhow, there are plenty of patients who DIE because somebody carried an assassin germ from somebody's nasty wound, and introduced it into somebody's I.V. port.

 

So get OVER the hand sanitizer issue folks. I'm certainly not a germ freak. Because they're everywhere. They are all over us. You can't get rid of germs by washing your hands, or using hand sanitizer, but you CAN keep from infecting a wound, or introducing a virus straight into your eyes (when you rub your eyes) by keeping your hands clean. Being dirty and not using soap only makes you stink worse. It doesn't make you healthier. And it Doesn't CAUSE Super Germs to develop. That's a media/internet/Urban myth that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

 

Factory Farming techniques are the NUMBER one cause of antibiotic resistance in our world. Protein is grown and raised in cramped spaces on our planet, and to even get a pig or a chicken or a cow to slaughtering size demands TONS of antibiotic and vaccine intervention. Influenza hits a vaccine head on, and can change on a dime, and recombine to get past it. Swine are vaccinated WAY more often and at MUCH higher numbers than humans are. Flu viruses use pigs to perfect their craft. Read some journals of Hog Farming, and you'll get a real handle on where killer viruses emerge.

 

I've never seen a flu virus that targets a particular social class.  cool14.gif  (It's probably why no intelligent country has EVER weaponized it). It's uncontainable. And in the right combination, it can be like an airborn Ebola. Nobody's that stupid. Nature is doing that on her own.

 

But when Nature culls, she doesn't target Social classes, she admires hybrid vigor.

 

I'm leaving the Zombie thing alone. I haven't figured out that "Movement" yet. LOL... Maybe they want the stupid people to run around shooting folks in the head out of fear when the shit hits the fan. Who knows?

 

 

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I thought it was a great post Taken.  There is so much misinformation out there.  A little shot of reality once in a while never hurts. Especially when it comes from someone knowledgeable in that particular industry. 

 

Like they say, if you tell a lie often enough and vehemently enough (As the talking box often does), people will begin to take it as fact.

 

On one of my other boards, we have a "Tin foil hat" Section to keep the garbage out of the main forum.  I don't go in there, so much wacky way out there stuff.  I can't help but wonder if some of them are actually sane!  taunt12.gif

 

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Right now, there is an outbreak of the Schmallenberg Virus affecting sheep in our area and in nearby Kent and East Sussex.  It's spread by the bite of little flies called "midges", and it causes birth defects and stillbirths in sheep and cattle.  Luckily, it currently can't be transmitted to humans, but who's to say it couldn't be if it evolves?  :scared: 

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Thankbyoubtakenbforbre educating menand abhead ache man that was alot of info ibthink i smell smoke crapbits coming from mynears be backb

 

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~ The truth is, rumors like that, Hillbilly are allowed to spread (I believe) because they keep the public from focussing on the real issue at hand. Our Need to Feed is creating all of these problems. We've eaten ourselves into a dangerous situation. Growing protein is a huge business. And doing it without antibiotics nowadays is next to impossible the way they crowd animals together.

 

" According to the NRDC, 80% of antibiotics used in the United States is used in livestock. The group also says 29.8 million pounds of antibiotics were used in livestock in 2009, up dramatically from the previous decade."

 

What do we do? Do we not eat?  :unsure:  If Ranchers can't keep huge numbers of animals alive in stockyards, then does meat become scarce? Do only the rich get to eat a steak? There's no easy solution. It's the number one thing I've learned when I started researching Influenza. EVERYTHING is connected! And everything is political, and ultimately impacts the economy. You can't be interested in human health, without learning about agriculture because if you think we're fighting some big battle in healthcare, it can't touch what Farmers and ranchers go through keeping livestock alive on this planet so this world can eat. And they are NOT the bad guys. They're struggling to keep their heads above water.

 

It's no accident that most of the ground breaking viral research happens at agricultural Universities... University of Wisconsin Madison, University of Athens, GA. Iowa State University ,OSU, Texas A&M  THESE are just a few of the folks who are keeping the chicken and steaks on everybody's table, and doing cutting edge research that impacts human health. We wouldn't have a clue what caused the 1918 Pandemic if it wasn't for agricultural research. There's WAY more money in the livestock pharmaceutical Industry than in healthcare. So when people think that flu shots are a way for "Big Pharma" to rake in the bucks... think again. Most pigs that make it to slaughter have had more than one flu shot. Maybe they're trying to protect your ass from the dangers they know are lurking in the stockyards. It's a HUGE war we're fighting just to maintain our numbers on Earth. Microbes can adapt WAY faster than we can act. So who's to blame? Nobody is. We didn't KNOW the danger of feeding our cattle antibiotics way back in the 70's. People wanted nice neighborhoods away from the smell of stockyards and poultry yards, so they put them inside huge enclosures. Viruses flourished. The war continues. To feed our numbers, and stay one step ahead of the viruses that threaten us. Sorry I ramble on, but the topic fascinates me, and often consumes me.  sad042.gif  I could type for the next ten hours on the subject without googling. But I'm stopping now.   

 

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/health/antibiotics-livestock/index.html

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~ Ok... this News clip is going viral all over the Viral Web. If they died from seasonal influenza that just wasn't "properly cared for", then why are they wearing hazmat suits?  :glare:

 

Could be a very serious health risk, something the CDC fears but won't say much about. Then again it could just be more fear mongering and further distraction to keep us on edge and keep us waiting on the not-so-white knights of Washington and the pharmaceutical industry to come rescue us from the big bad...whatever . Anytime the pictures don't match the words you know one or both have to be wrong...I really just don't trust ANY main stream media anymore. I don't trust anyone with an agenda of getting into my wallet...or getting into my head...to tell me the truth. I was born at night, but not last night :)

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Some Bird Flu Strains Only Three Mutations Away From A Pandemic:

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/06/21/how-likely-is-human-bird-flu-pandemic/?test=latestnews

 

http://rense.gsradio.net:8080/rense/special/rense_Niman_062112.mp3  in keeping with Niman... it's long and drawn out and full of clades and position numbers (typical virology nerd talk that even I fall asleep listening to), and site domain changes, but basically he gets to the gist that Egypt has the greatest potential of spawing this virus naturally based on viruses isolated there. These changes are already happening in the wild waterfowl population on the planet. And we all know that waterfowl migrate. I admire Niman's theory of recombination that pretty much is way more efficient than mutation. He's proven himself to me by predicting several months in advance what I'd be seeing cinically back in 2009, and he was right on the money. I wish the people who make flu vaccines would listen to him or at least read his website.

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