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Tatonka

Here Are some Answers to Questions from Anti gunners

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I have no idea why the democrat party is on the anti gun thing K Bob.  :nono:  Thats one of the main reasons George Bush is in the White House. The conservatives seem to have no idea how much damage this opinion causes the party. I know more people from where I live who vote Republican because of this issue.

 

I think in the long run the Constitution will prevail but there will always be those who will continue the assault on our rights.

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On a fishing trip in Saskatchewan we over heard someone shooting a gun in a public camp ground near the private fishing camp we were staying. I told the camp owner that I have been around guns all my life and what I was hearing was a large caliber pistol.

 

The owner said "So"?

 

I said "Arent pistols illegal to own in Canada?"

 

He says "Yes but lots of people have them."

 

Actually handguns are legal in Canada the only thing is is that they are STRICKTLY REGULATED...you have to be licensed etc and then you have to provide the police with the quickest and most direct route to the local gun range. THEN you have to keep it locked etc during transport, if you waiver from the route you gave the police and are caught somewhere outside of said route with the gun.....BIG TROUBLE....

 

One of the first things I looked into when I came up here.....LOL

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I find all those who've kept hand weapons out of the hands of those who might have used them to avert a crime or a killing to be guilty of aiding and abetting the criminal.  Police can't be everywhere.  Psychopaths are not easily caught.  People do go insane.  Entirely separate from the primary task of weapons, of who runs the government...without weapons, it's not the citizens.

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Howdy woodsman.  You can't shoot it on your own property?

 

I can't even shoot my bow on my own property..... can't shoot air rifles either.... but you can buy em at Wally World without a licence. You need a licence for anything that shoots a solid projectile over 400 fps. I believe.

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Okay.  Scratch that idea of ever moving to Canada.  How the  censored.gif are ya supposed to protect yourself from bears and the like?

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Okay.  Scratch that idea of ever moving to Canada.  How the  censored.gif are ya supposed to protect yourself from bears and the like?

 

poutine we feed them poutine.

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Poutine? What the hell is that? Did you misspell poontang?    :unsure:

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Well everyone hide their semi auto shotguns now and other rifles. As Obama has all intentions at taking them away.

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In his answers to the 1998 Illinois State Legislative National Political Awareness Test, Obama said he favored a ban on “the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons.”

By definition, this would include all pistols ever made, from .22 target pistols used in the Olympics to rarely-fired pistols kept in nightstands and sock drawers for the defense of families, and every pistol in between. Obama’s strident stand would also ban all semi-automatic rifles and shotguns, whatever their previously legal purpose…

At no point [on his campaign site] does Obama recognize an individual right to own handguns, or explicitly recognize a right for Americans to use a firearm to defend themselves or others. The site explicitly states that Barack Obama recognizes civilian gun ownership for two just purposes, “hunting and target shooting.”

Once his prohibitive views of firearms ownership become known to America’s millions of gun owners, they may well decide that a gun-grabbing Barack Obama promises the kind of “change” that they can’t believe in.

 

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Obama’s Shadowy Gun Rights Group Endorsement

by AmerPundit | 5:48 pm

 

Today ABC News reports that Barack Obama has received the endorsement of a supposed “gun rights” groups.

 

“Sen. Obama will be a strong voice an unabashed voice for America’s hunters and shooters and it is with great pleasure that we endorse his candidacy,” President of the Association Ray Schoenke said, citing Obama’s commitment to the traditions of gun ownership.

 

Schoenke said they had reached out to the Obama campaign several weeks ago to offer their support – but the announcement wasn’t made public until today. Schoenke added that the timing amid the controversy was important.

 

“We believe recent attacks on Sen. Obama’s stand on the 2nd amendment and his commitment to the hunting and shooting heritages are unfair.”

 

Wow. That speaks volumes about Obama’s commitm….wait.

 

Bob Owens notes that the “American Hunters an Shooters Association” is actually run by a Daily Kos diarist. The diarist, Ray Schoenke, doesn’t exactly have a history of pro-gun rights:

 

Schoenke, a failed Democratic candidate for governor of Maryland, has donated thousands to Handgun Control, Inc, a virulent anti-gun organization that was the forerunner of Brady Campaign To Prevent Gun Violence. He has donated thens of thousands more to anti-gun Democratic politicians including Ted Kennedy.

 

AHSA executive director Robert Ricker has testified as a paid witness against the gun industry and consults for several anti-gun groups, and John Rosenthal, President of the AHSA Foundation, is a former member of Sarah Brady’s Handgun Control, Inc, and is leader of Stop Handgun Violence, a Massachusetts anti-gun group that has contributed to that state’s intolerant anti-gun guns.

 

The organization’s website says the NRA has sold “us” out. SayUncle actually looked into the group 2 months ago:

 

When you follow the money, they read like a who’s who of gun grabbers. They are a front for the anti-gun Democratic Leadership Council so that anti-gun politicos can say they belong to a group that sounds pro-gun.

 

Members (five of them that they disclose) of the AHSA are anti-gun lobbyists.

 

They’re basically a shill group set up so that anti-gun candidates can try to woo the hunting crowd. Note that their only endorsement vi

 

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You're right about the "American Hunters an Shooters Association", they're just a front for HCI, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and others who have worked to pass more and more anti-gun legislation.  Let's face it, as Swede said George W. won election due in part to the anti-gun stance taken by his opponents.  This time around, with the economy in the condition it's in, the anti/pro-gun policies of the candidates may not swing as many votes.  Even I'm torn on who to vote for (don't anyone faint or anything).  We're screwed either way we go.  gen140.gif

 

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Howdy woodsman.  You can't shoot it on your own property?

 

You can do that from my understanding...But its so much crap to deal with why even bother...

 

Holly crap, Woods... you're alive!

 

 

Miss ya buddy.

 

Been spendin time with Bow at all?

 

No...havent even had a chance to talk with him since Ive been here. Been doin a lot with Les aside from my own stuff...been working on a few new books, been clearing blow downs and standing dead on the property for our firewood for the winter (And to sell), been takin care of Wendys grandmothers property (Mowin the lawn, takin down some danger trees, and cleanin up brush) and Ive been workin with a friend of mine a few days a week...hes a forester and is teachin me a lot...Hes goin to do an apprenticship for me once Im a resident. Wendy and I should be married here soon...Im waitin for my divorce papers to get here from Virginia, need a copy of them for our marrage licence...waitin on coppies of her papers as well...within the next week or so...Then I will finnaly be able to go home and see my buddy...havent seen him in a little over 3 months now...If I leave they might not let me back in the country so Ive had to wait it out...after all I AM a terrorist and threat to Canadian National Security...guess there afraid Ill try to disrupt maple syrup production in the country or something...LOL

 

And why the hell is my avatar a GOAT????? ERIC???? WTF???? LOL

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And why the hell is my avatar a GOAT????? ERIC???? WTF???? LOL

 

I'd been meaning to ask you about that....I thought that Swede had maybe rubbed off on you a little too much...

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Well its changed now!!!!

 

Anyway....

 

There are a lot of oppinions on this subject...It is one of those things that will always be debated etc etc. IMO (And YES I am a card carryin member of the NRA) I think that we do need more regulation on firearms...but only to a certain extent. Its EVERYONES right to be able to defend themselves, but at the same time you do have VERY irresponsible people out there. How many times have some of you walked into the gun shop and seen some 21yr old kid who has never even HELD a gun goin in to buy one? I think that there should be at least a maditory firearms safety course (not just hunter safety)  before the purchase of a hand gun, shot gun, or rifle. Then once you make your purchase it should be manditory that the dealer give you specific instructions into that particular model (Maybe 10-15 mins).

    Think of how many times you see on the news about an accidental shooting etc...Just think of how much better off we would be if the gangbanger knew how to just simply HOLD the damn thing...he'd hit the other gangbanger and not the 50 other people standing near by....

    I dont think thats regulation but more of a safety issue though, and I dont see that as unreasonable...you have to have X many hours of drivers ed before you get your license....you should have x number of gun safety hours before the purchase of a firearm.

 

But then again you could always argue that the government would use that as a means to keep track of who owns what...and then you could argue invasion of privacy....

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But then again you could always argue that the government would use that as a means to keep track of who owns what...and then you could argue invasion of privacy....

 

Well, they can always start by going around to the shops, picking up the 4473's, and start from there, as far as that goes. 

 

A little education never hurt anyone, and yeah, I've seen some stupid things just at the gun shops, let alone out at the ranges.  As you said Woods, you have to get a driver's permit and maybe take Driver's Ed....

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Education is ok, but it is another area for the anti-gunners to make the process more difficult.  I'd support a large sign in every gun shop, gun dealer's stand at gun shows, and anywhere that sells ammo.  The sign would say, "If you hurt someone with your weapon, you will be liable, in civil and possibly criminal law, SO GET SOME TRAINING!!!"

 

I'll say too, and it's a side issue, that I'm not sure driver's education is that effective...man the way a lot of people drive...yikes.

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You're right about the "American Hunters an Shooters Association", they're just a front for HCI, Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, and others who have worked to pass more and more anti-gun legislation.  Let's face it, as Swede said George W. won election due in part to the anti-gun stance taken by his opponents.  This time around, with the economy in the condition it's in, the anti/pro-gun policies of the candidates may not swing as many votes.  Even I'm torn on who to vote for (don't anyone faint or anything).  We're screwed either way we go.  gen140.gif

 

I doubt if Oboma or Congress has any time to spend on gun issues Bob and Tatonka. Theres too much stuff to do first. Hopefully. 

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And why the hell is my avatar a GOAT?Huh? ERIC?Huh WTF?Huh LOL

 

Goat? Who me?  :whistle:

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And why the hell is my avatar a GOAT?Huh? ERIC?Huh WTF?Huh LOL

 

Goat? Who me?   :whistle:

Remind me not to piss you off......, I don't need anyone messing with my av....., I'll think I'm not here or something ???

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I doubt if Oboma or Congress has any time to spend on gun issues Bob and Tatonka. Theres too much stuff to do first. Hopefully. 

 

The next Pres may have it shoved at them.  The anti-lobby (or the pro-lobby, for that matter) has ONE issue on it's mind, and the passage of economic measures will not be what they'll be screaming for when Obama gets into office.  Granted, I think the next Pres will focus on economic matters, but HCI et al will be wanting to push their own agenda's ahead, and to hell with the economy.  I really can't see the anti's waiting until the economy is taken care of, they're going to move fast.  Hopefully the next Prez will say, "Are you nuts?? I don't have time for this  censored.gif !!"  But probably not.

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John McCain on Gun Control

Republican Sr Senator (AZ)

 

 

 

 

I know how to use guns; but I don't own one

Q: Tell us about your gun collection, roughly how many you own, what your favorite make, model and caliber is, if any of them require a tax stamp?

A: For a long time I used a lot of guns, including carrying a .45 as a pilot flying in combat over Vietnam. I know how to use guns. I don't own one now.

 

Source: 2007 GOP YouTube debate in St. Petersburg, Florida Nov 28, 2007

 

Prosecute criminals, not citizens for gun ownership

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals--criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.

Source: Campaign website, www.johnmccain.com, "Issues" Sep 1, 2007

 

Don't hold gun manufacturers liable for crimes

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry. McCain says, "Neither justice nor domestic peace are served by holding the innocent responsible for the acts of the criminal."

Source: Campaign website, www.johnmccain.com, "Issues" Sep 1, 2007

 

Opposes restrictions on assault weapons and ammunition types

McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans.

McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

Source: Campaign website, www.johnmccain.com, "Issues" Sep 1, 2007

 

Calls for GOP "tolerance" of closing gun show loopholes

A recall petition drive was started in June 2001 by the Arizona far right. The petition complained that McCain was disloyal to the President, especially in voting against his tax bill, and it also complained about his proposal to close the gun show loophole. One form of the petition accused him of backing "dishonest and treasonist" legislation. Several of the petitions were posted at gun shops.

The NRA was particularly angry with him for its being included in his campaign finance reform bill, and for trying to tighten a loophole in the gun control laws. McCain himself was sufficiently concerned that he sent a 4-page, single-spaced letter to every GOP precinct leader in Arizona. He called for "greater tolerance" for Republicans "who occasionally dissent" from one or another majority position held by a party. He explained his vote against Bush's tax cut and talked about the need to build up national defense, about his work on the patients' bill of rights, and the gun show loophole.

 

Source: Citizen McCain, by Elizabeth Drew, p. 78-79 May 7, 2002

 

Ban cheap guns; require safety locks; for gun show checks

McCain favors outlawing cheaply made handguns called Saturday night specials, and favors mandating safety locks on certain guns. He said he is intrigued by new technology that electronically identifies a person handling a gun, allowing only the owner to fire it. McCain rallied Senate Republicans behind a Democratic measure requiring background checks at gun shows.

Source: Scott Lindlaw, Associated Press Aug 17, 1999

 

Supports ban on certain assault weapons

McCain said he was open to voting for an assault weapon ban, depending on the details.

Source: Los Angeles Times, “McCain Calls for Hearings” Aug 17, 1999

 

Voted against Brady Bill & assault weapon ban

McCain spoke generally of the need for some tighter gun controls on hardened criminals and children. In Congress, he pressured his colleagues to require background checks for buyers at guns shows, and he supported a requirement that trigger locks be sold with handguns. But the Senator opposed the two major gun-control measures of recent years, the 1994 ban on several types of assault weapons and the Brady Bill, which required a 5-day waiting period for handgun purchases.

Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999

 

Guns are a problem, but so are violent web sites & videos

If you want to take every gun in and dump it in the ocean, I’ll still take you to a Web site where it teaches children how to build a pipe bomb. And I’ll take you to a Web site where the worst kind of hate language that is terribly offensive to all of us exists. I can take you to a video game being sold to our children where the object of the game is to kill police. I understand the importance of weapons, but to define that as being the major cause [of youth violence], there’s a whole lot of causes.

Source: Todd S. Purdum, New York Times, p. A14 Aug 17, 1999

 

Punish criminals who abuse 2nd Amendment rights

We need to focus on halting the spread of violent crime and punishing violent criminals who abuse their Second Amendment rights, while preserving those same rights for law-abiding Americans.

Source: www.mccain2000.com/ “Press Releases” May 10, 1999

 

Youth Violence Prevention Act restricts guns for kids

McCain has introduced the “Youth Violence Prevention Act.”

The legislation would:

prevent juveniles from illegal access to weapons and punish those who would assist them in doing so

prohibit juveniles who commit acts of gun violence from purchasing guns in the future

sentence juveniles convicted of violent crimes under adult guidelines

and punish juveniles who illegally carry or use handguns in schools.

Source: www.mccain2000.com/ “Press Releases” May 10, 1999

 

Repeal existing gun restrictions; penalize criminal use

McCain supports the following principles regarding gun issues:

Repeal federal restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens.

Favor allowing citizens to carry concealed firearms.

McCain says, “There are penalties for criminals who use firearms.”

Source: Project Vote Smart, 1998, www.vote-smart.org Jul 2, 1998

 

Voted YES on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers.

A bill to prohibit civil liability actions from being brought or continued against manufacturers, distributors, dealers, or importers of firearms or ammunition for damages, injunctive or other relief resulting from the misuse of their products by others. Voting YES would:

Exempt lawsuits brought against individuals who knowingly transfer a firearm that will be used to commit a violent or drug-trafficking crime

Exempt lawsuits against actions that result in death, physical injury or property damage due solely to a product defect

Call for the dismissal of all qualified civil liability actions pending on the date of enactment by the court in which the action was brought

Prohibit the manufacture, import, sale or delivery of armor piercing ammunition, and sets a minimum prison term of 15 years for violations

Require all licensed importers, manufacturers and dealers who engage in the transfer of handguns to provide secure gun storage or safety devices

Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S 397 ; vote number 2005-219 on Jul 29, 2005

 

Voted YES on banning lawsuits against gun manufacturers for gun violence.

Vote to pass a bill that would block certain civil lawsuits against manufacturers, distributors, dealers and importers of firearms and ammunition, mainly those lawsuits aimed at making them liable for gun violence. In this bill, trade groups would also be protected The bill would call for the dismissal of pending lawsuits against the gun industry. The exception would be lawsuits regarding a defect in a weapon or ammunition. It also would provide a 10-year reauthorization of the assault weapons ban which is set to expire in September 2004. The bill would increase the penalties for gun-related violent or drug trafficking crimes which have not resulted in death, to a minimum of 15 years imprisonment. The bill calls for criminal background checks on all firearm transactions at gun shows where at least 75 guns are sold. Exemptions would be made available for dealers selling guns from their homes as well as members-only gun swaps and meets carried out by nonprofit hunting clubs.

Reference: Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act; Bill S.1805/H.R.1036 ; vote number 2004-30 on Mar 2, 2004

 

Voted NO on background checks at gun shows.

Require background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows.

Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)50; N)50; VP decided YES

Reference: Lautenberg Amdt #362; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-134 on May 20, 1999

 

Voted YES on more penalties for gun & drug violations.

The Hatch amdt would increase mandatory penalties for the illegal transfer or use of firearms, fund additional drug case prosecutors, and require background check on purchasers at gun shows. [A YES vote supports stricter penalties].

Status: Amdt Agreed to Y)48; N)47; NV)5

Reference: Hatch Amendment #344; Bill S. 254 ; vote number 1999-118 on May 14, 1999

 

Voted YES on loosening license & background checks at gun shows.

Vote to table or kill a motion to require that all gun sales at gun shows be completed by federally licensed gun dealers. Also requires background checks to be completed on buyers and requires gun show promoters to register with the Treasury.

Reference: Bill S.254 ; vote number 1999-111 on May 11, 1999

 

Voted YES on maintaining current law: guns sold without trigger locks.

Vote to table [kill] an amendment to make it unlawful for gun dealers to sell handguns without providing trigger locks. Violation of the law would result in civil penalties, such as suspension or revocation of the dealer's license, or a fine.

Reference: Bill S 2260 ; vote number 1998-216 on Jul 21, 1998

 

Ban gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC.

McCain co-sponsored banning gun registration & trigger lock law in Washington DC

 

Nothing in any provision of law shall authorize the Mayor, or any governmental authority of the District of Columbia, to prohibit possessing firearms by a person who is allowed to possess firearms under federal law.

Denies the District any authority to enact laws or regulations that discourage or eliminate the private ownership or use of firearms.

Repeals the ban on semiautomatic weapons.

Repeals the District's registration requirement for possession of firearms.

Repeals the trigger lock law.

Maintains the current ban on the possession and control of a sawed-off shotgun, machine gun, or short-barreled rifle.

Eliminates criminal penalties for possessing an unregistered firearm.

Specifies exceptions to the prohibition against carrying concealed weapons in the District.

Source: D.C. Personal Protection Act (H.R.1399/S.1001) 2007-S1001 on Mar 27, 2007 

 

 

Page last updated: 3/31/2008

 

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