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bestseller92

Do you go armed when you're in the wilderness?


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I assumed that automobile accidents should be folded into unintentional accidents.  These stats were from an overview type source.

 

I think that you will find that deaths related to automobiles is much higher than either accident or deliberate death from firearms and that most firearm related incidents are perpetrated by criminals and when you take into consideration that there are an estimated 40,000,000 legal firearms owners in the USA that are not criminals, that's saying something about responsible ownership.

 

Agreed RA, but I was more concerned with pointing out how rare an encounter with a criminal in the wilderness must be.  Now on some of the big busy trails...there I am not so sure.

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I suppose that would depend on where you live.  Going into the mountain areas of California is a dangerous journey these days.  Lots of Mexican Cartel marijuana farms, local growers, Mexican poachers, illegals that live off of the people they rob, rape and murder, etc.  Go to any of the border areas and you will see (maybe not read about) violence.  1000s of people just across the border, have been beheaded.  Most of them within a few miles of American cities.  Washington state was just one of several wilderness related states where several people were murdered because some sicko could do it without worry of getting caught.  People disappear without a trace in the wilderness areas all the time.  A couple were sleeping on a beach here in California.  Both were shot to death. 

Lots of reasons to carry a frearm in the wilderness.  Animals don't even compete as a reason in my opinion.

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I probably shouldn't weigh in on this as I am both a lifelong hunter and trapper.

Where I grew up in Montana, you started carrying a rifle as soon as you could keep both ends off the ground. Wild game meat has always been a staple supply at my house.

When I was 8 years old, (and to this day), I hate liver. My mother gave me the option of eating it or finding my own dinner. I found out from that experience that young woodchuck,(marmot) is pretty good roasted over a fire, but the older ones taste terrible.

 

Montana has several similarities to more rural Canada, we do have black bears, cougar, grizzles,(silvertips) and Canadian grey wolves(thank you government) in abundance.

 

All will attack.

 

I do hunt and I do eat bear. Actually I think it makes the best pepperoni in the world, pretty good Canadian Bacon too! :cool:

I have had multiple run ins with bears and a couple with cougars. No I did not kill them all. Most of them ended peacefully. But... I have had to take predatory animals to protect livestock, and this includes feral dogs. I didn't like it, but it is a case of they are destroying your livelyhood, you have to protect it.

 

I probably have more respect for predators than any other emotion. I acknowledge what they can do, and I demand the same from them. I won't attack them, (out of season anyway) unless they start the ball rolling. If trouble starts, I WILL be the one walking away afterward.

 

We had 5 grizzly maulings here in less than 2 months last fall. All were seasoned outdoorsman, one was a game warden. They followed all procedures, took all precautions, but the bears were just being bears. Too many Birkenstalkers think it is a petting zoo here and the animals loose their fear of humans.

Probably one of the most dangerous animals we have here is the American Buffalo. Several people each year go to Yellowstone and get gored being stupid. That isn't the buffalo's fault, it is again people.

 

Moose have a notoriously short temper, and have probably put more outdoorsmen up a tree than bears if the truth be known.

 

My point is that this is a survival website that includes setting snares and traps for animals. We are omnivores, same as bears. We can eat almost anything, but meat has the most nutritional value per pound.

It is mildly hypocritical to say it is OK to take a rabbit to eat by snare, but not a deer that was taken in fair chase circumstances.

 

In Montana we are definitely part of the food chain, and those who forget become the days blue plate special.

 

I am always armed, and in truth, most Montanan's are. Not because we are scared of anything, but we are prepared to handle all situations. There will probably never be a mass shooting here as we shoot back. Cops are few and far between here and that calls for more self reliance than most metropolitan areas. We take care of our own. In many respects this is still the wild west it is just more hidden now .

 

I do appreciate the civility of this discussion, and appreciate the various points of view. I would say many opinions, like mine have been tempered by the culture we live in. I feel naked without a weapon whether a firearm, knife, ax, garrote, something. Not that I am scared of anything, but rather as a survivor, I feel it is just part of being prepared, like carrying a lighter or matches all the time.

 

By the way, You can kill a bear with a pistol, I wouldn't reccomend it, but it can be done. A photographer in Bozeman a few years ago killed a grizzly with 2 shots.

The second shot was with the muzzle against the bears head as the bear had his paw wrapped around the Photographers leg. It was a 41 mag.

and the bear weighed 500 lbs.

 

Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

Adds a little spice to life.

 

Oh yeah, one last thing, I think cougar meat is pretty tasty! :hugegrin:

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And THATS why I'm going to get out of Iowa and live in Montana LOL.  I hate it how people around here (Including my parents) just completely fear firearms, hate them, don't think they have a part in society. 

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I know it can be hard, but just try to understand their point of view, SK.  Most people have reasons for why they feel the way they do.  You don't have to agree with them, but try at least to listen to opposing viewpoints.  It will make a better, more intelligent man to use what God gave you between your ears and consider what others say, think, and do.  There will be times when someone will do their best to insult you or be-little you for your views, most forums you find will be full of that sort of small-mindedness (MSNBC's Newsvine is really bad for it, and stands as a GREAT example of why Swede prefers us NOT to discuss politics and religion!).  Just be tolerant and stick to the high ground when it comes to any kind of heated debate, buddy.  You're already on the road to becoming a good man, SK.

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I only know one man who will have nothing to do with guns or at least nothing until a beaver got into his farm pond and ate off all the trees he planted.  :woot:  Than BANG no more beaver.  happy097.gif 

 

Sometimes its hard not to say something to someone who has a different opinion about religion or politics or guns. Just keep in mind your not likely to change their minds so dont even go there. Of course sometimes they attack you for your opinion and it gets even harder. I just figure everybody cant be as smart as me.  :hugegrin:

 

Good post Wolf. I guess Im going to have to visit Montana.

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Guest blacksmith

give them a salmon and send them out in the woods up here

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Oh yeah, one last thing, I think cougar meat is pretty tasty! :hugegrin:

 

I was in on a lion kill here in California on a ranch not far from our home.  Killed on a depredation permit, they hired in a friend of mine to do the work and I went along for the experience and I agree, Cougar meat is real tasty.

 

 

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Never say Never Swede. :nop:

 

When I was growing up, we ate a lot of strange things. The Cattle and sheep were there to sell for cash money, we mostly ate what we caught or hunted.

There was a lot of elk and deer venison, Blue Grouse, ruffled grouse, and frankolins were fabulous in season, Brook trout, Cutthroat trout and sometimes a rainbow.

 

Marmot is basically rabbit, (don't eat the old ones, thats just nasty), There were a couple times a bobcat made it into the pot, Bear were always around during the summer chasing the sheep. (For a while anyway, many spent the winter in our freezer). Rattlesnake makes great sandwich spread, a lot like tuna or chicken salad.

 

Not on purpose, but I did have a stew one night at a neighbors house that had the strangest tasting meat I ever tried. Tough, stringy, the flavor was somewhere between "A bit off" and "gag meter maxed". I found out later it was coyote. I do NOT reccomend that! :thumbdown:

 

Beaver is OK, not one of my favorites, but it works in a pinch.

 

There were times in line camp when I was 11 by myself for the summer fixing fence and watching the cattle that I ran out of meat and porcupines were easy to catch. The fat is similar to eating pine pitch, the meat is nothing special, but boy do you have toothpicks! Squirrel is much better.

 

This experience came in handy when I was overseas in the military. First rule of eating over there is "If it tastes good, don't ask what it is!" :scared:

 

Cougar is just another piece of meat on the plate. It is very fine grained, pretty mild, very tender. Don't knock it till you try it!

 

Just be happy Bear Grillis isn't making supper!  8|

 

But I digress from the post.

 

One thing about carrying a weapon in the wilds is it makes it a lot easier to sample natures smorgasborg! :cool:

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Beaver is OK, not one of my favorites, but it works in a pinch.

 

So you ate a beaver. 

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So much for the "family oriented" part!  :nop:

 

Family: Castoridae, Beavers view all from this family

 

Description A very large, bulky rodent, with rounded head and small, rounded ears. Dark brown fur is fine and soft. Scaly tail large, black, horizontally flattened, and paddle-shaped. Large, black, webbed hindfoot has 5 toes, with inner 2 nails cleft. Eyes and ears small. Large, dark orange incisors. L 3–4' (900–1,200 mm); T 11 3/4–17 1/2" (300–440 mm); HF 6 1/8–8 1/8" (156–205 mm); Wt usually 44–60 lb (20–27 kg), but sometimes up to 86 lb (39 kg).

 

Similar Species Muskrats and Nutria are much smaller and have slender tails.

 

Boy, spend a little time in places where the morals are a little "different" and you are branded for life! :hugegrin:

 

"Your honor Sir, I would like to plead under my 5th amendment rights to remain silent so I do not inciriminate myself". wacky078.gif

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Ive had beaver. Its more like beef maybe a little more stringy. I think some ruin it by barbecuing it. Any plant eating animal is better then a meat eater although I really dont know because racoon is the only animal that Ive eaten that isnt a plant eater. Im no fan or racoon. Too greasy.

 

I cant believe cougar could be good eating.  :puke:

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I tell you what Swede,

There has been a Cougar chasing my father's horses. If he slips up, I will overnight you a roast.

If nothing else, you can say you tried it!

 

The one thing I have problems getting down is that one friend of mine bowfishes for carp. He thinks taking the roe and rolling it in cornmeal and frying it makes a dandy breakfast.

 

I am afraid if I tried that Not only would I not have breakfast, I would probably not be in any shape for lunch! :help:

 

There are foods that taste divine, some that eat well, some that fill the gut, and some you have to be at least a week hungry to even think about.

 

If all else fails, Pass the Ketchup!

 

Back to topic. :rolleyes:

 

A weapon in the wilderness makes sense, especially if you are going deep into the backside of beyond. It can keep you alive. But the best weapon is always our natural one, the weapon that makes us an Apex Predator, our big brains.

 

If we think, we can stay out of trouble, make the best of a bad situation, heal ourselves, feed ourselves and keep ourselves alive.

 

Any tool that helps you to survive a situation is not a crutch, it is the means to make your life better.

 

Many of us that frequent this board could go out with just the clothes on our backs, and make shelter, build fire, and devise means to capture dinner. If we need a snare or a deadfall, great! Most of us can fashion those from materials we find.

If things turn bad, we can devise spears, slings, stone hammers, some could make bows and arrows or atl-atls, we can make traps, catch fish or turtles or frogs, pick berries, dig roots, we can survive.

 

If we have a rifle or pistol, our chances go from just surviving to dominating the situation. We are Apex Predators and can take on any animal in the world.

 

My hero's were the Mountain Men who lived in this area. Men like Hugh Glass, Jim Bridger, John Coulter, Jedediah Smith, Men who went into the wilderness with a rifle, some salt and a little tobacco. They used their wits, their courage and ingenuity to tame a land.

 

Having a rifle wasn't a crutch, it was a tool for protection and for getting food.  They were tougher than rawhide with the hair left on, but they epitomized the ideal we strive for. Self reliance, courage, and the will to act and stay alive in any situation.

 

Hugh Glass was mauled by a grizzly and left for dead. He pulled himself over 100 miles to a fort. He survived.

John Coulter was captured by Blackfeet Indians near present day Three Forks, about 60 miles from where I live. He was stripped naked and told to run, and he did. Through prickly pear until his feet were torn to rags, but he outran all the Indians save one which he killed in hand to hand combat.

He hid under a log jam in the river until the Indians moved on.

Cold, naked, his feet torn to shreds he walked through the wilderness and made it to safety.

 

Our will and intelligence make us what we are, not our tools. Our tools just make it easier to live better.

 

Whew, I am afraid I am a little windy tonight! :blushing:

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First carp eggs are delicious. Ive et a lot as a kid. Also sow (female) carp fillet with the scales off and the skin left on and than scored. (sliced to the skin every half inch) from clean water in the spring and deep fried to where their are no bones to contend with is some fine eaten Ill tell you what.

 

Dont try other eggs like catfish or salmon or something like that. They will explode right out of the frying pan and you will be on a ladder tomorrow scraping it off the ceiling. (been there done that) To say nothing of the boiling hot shrapnel of grease flying all over the kitchen.  scared011.gif

 

I aint afraid to eat uh cat. Send some down.  :smoke:

 

You forgot Jeramia Johnson. Best movie ever made.  :thumbup:

 

The scouts, woodsman, settlers, trappers and gold prospectors were tough as nails.

 

Robert Service>

 

 

 

    There's a race of men that don't fit in,

        A race that can't stay still;

    So they break the hearts of kith and kin,

        And they roam the world at will.

    They range the field and they rove the flood,

        And they climb the mountain's crest;

    Theirs is the curse of the gypsy blood,

        And they don't know how to rest.

 

    If they just went straight they might go far;

        They are strong and brave and true;

    But they're always tired of the things that are,

        And they want the strange and new.

    They say: "Could I find my proper groove,

        What a deep mark I would make!"

    So they chop and change, and each fresh move

        Is only a fresh mistake.

 

    And each forgets, as he strips and runs

        With a brilliant, fitful pace,

    It's the steady, quiet, plodding ones

        Who win in the lifelong race.

    And each forgets that his youth has fled,

        Forgets that his prime is past,

    Till he stands one day, with a hope that's dead,

        In the glare of the truth at last.

 

    He has failed, he has failed; he has missed his chance;

        He has just done things by half.

    Life's been a jolly good joke on him,

        And now is the time to laugh.

    Ha, ha! He is one of the Legion Lost;

        He was never meant to win;

    He's a rolling stone, and it's bred in the bone;

        He's a man who won't fit in.

 

 

 

 

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I'm afraid you may have my number there.

I have always loved that poem, and yes it strikes very close to home.

 

Very good post Swede :thumbsup:

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Swede

I must say I never have been one for poetry, but that is one poem that I really like and just like mtwolfbane stated, It describes me a little to well, also.

 

 

Although I have never really had to use it for anything. I do usually pack while in the woods we are in bear country here, but something we have to watch out for even more here in eastern Ky is the pot growers, they get pretty riled up when you get to near there plantations and have been known to kill on numerous occasions.

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Boy, spend a little time in places where the morals are a little "different" and you are branded for life! :hugegrin:

  I feel ya there man.....,just go spend a few years in an "alternate reality" and some of the things you bring back with you will get you some really funny looks sometimes, and often judgements from the less worldly and the narrow minded.

 

  I have eaten muskrat more than once growing up as a kid, we had it fried,  roasted and in a hash with carrots and potatoes. I've eaten coon once, it was barbequed and pretty good. I'll never eat another opossum though...., much rather eat more monkey (which is an odd sight as it cooks over a fire), more bugs, roots, or even another cat (BTW hope the larger variety of cat tastes better than the smaller ones)

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Somebody told me, or I read somewhere, that in the old days, rabbits had to have at least one foot left on the carcass, so that you could tell it from skinned cat.  From that I always assumed there wasn't much difference in taste.

 

Edit: 

One or two butchers who normally buy wild rabbit from rabbit shooters have apparently insisted that the head and paws are left on the carcass so that it can be proven to be rabbit (this information was provided by a rabbit shooter in my own area in 1993).

 

http://www.messybeast.com/misscat.htm

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