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Co-transmission of H5N1 with Pandemic H1N1 in Egypt? Recombinomics Commentary 18:16

September 2, 2009

 

This article describes at least THREE people who are believed to have been infected with BOTH viruses, Pandemic H1N1 and Bird Flu H5N1.  8|

 

"We are waiting the results of the tests that have already been carried out in some patients suspected of having been infected by the H5N1 and the A(H1N1)," said World Health Organisation spokesman Gregory Hartl in an interview with Adnkronos Salute.

 

"The presence of both viruses in multiple individuals identified over a brief time period suggests the viruses are efficiently co-transmitting, which creates serious concerns due to co-infections, or exchanges of genetic information via reassortment or recombination. Mammalian polymorphisms have been noted in prior H5N1 isolates, and pandemic  H1N1 has H5N1 polymorphisms, indicating exchanges via recombination have happened previously."

 

 

Here's the link if anyone wants to read it:

 

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09020902/H1N1_H5N1_H2H.html

 

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has anyone had any problems finding N95 respirators?  Surgical masks won't cut the mustard with this stuff.  I found 2  boxes of 3 masks in one location and bought both of them.  No one else had them and I called everyone in the book. 

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~ We have several Swine flu patients in our Intensive Care unit right now on Ventilators. (All adults).

 

I took care of a twenty-something year old patient day before yesterday (They are pulling us from NICU to help take care of these adults). We've had a huge outbreak in the Southeast, and it started with kids going back to school. Now we're starting to see young adults come in and THEY Are the ones who are the sickest.  8|

 

It's like there's no middleground with this virus, either it's mild, or you end up in Intensive Care for several weeks fighting for your life. I struggled all day to keep my patient off of a ventilator, but as my shift pressed on, he was struggling harder and harder to breathe, and he was in such pain (From the body aches of influenza) that he had to have pain meds every few hours. I knew when they gave him his pain medication and he relaxed, and his oxygen saturation started dropping, that he would be on a ventilator before nightfall. I ended my shift, wheeling him into the unit. He had tears in his eyes, and so did I.

 

We hadn't seen a single case until school started, and now it has just exploded across the Southeast.

 

Next week, the entire nation starts back to school.

 

I spent almost 12 hours in isolation gear, and the nurse asked me "How can you stand to be in that room wearing all that stuff?"  8|  I wanted to ask her "how can you stand to NOT?"  :glare:

 

He couldn't even take a sip of water without my help. One minute he was freezing, one minute he'd have to have a wet washcloth to cool off.  :nono: 

 

The situation in our country is going to get worse. Hospitals have cut staff down to the bare MINIMUM.  :rant:

 

NOW there is NO surge capacity to handle this Pandemic.  Our hospital had a task force meeting the other morning to talk about preparing...  (I'm thinking WHAT have they been doing all Summer, other than cutting staff? ) NONE Of those bozos anticipated a surge in patient load this Fall.  censored.gif 

 

Their advice was  "Just get on the phone and see if you can get folks to come in and work."  They've cut five positions in our Respiratory Therapy Department this past year. They're already robbing from the NICU unit to cover the Adult Respiratory surge, and this flu season is just starting to heat up.

 

All I can think about is that I can't afford to get sick.  I'm taking whatever flu vaccine they offer me, so I can stay on the cutting edge of this battle, and apply everything I've learned.  :box:

 

(Oh, and all those docs who've made fun of my "Pandemic Interests" over the years, are all of a sudden huddling up and discussing the situation with me.)  :smoke:

 

"Hey taken, wait up... what have you heard about Tamifly resistance?"    :whistle:

 

"Hey taken, I hear you have an article about the lack of fever in H1N1 patients.... can I read it?"    :smoke:

 

Watching first hand what this virus CAN Do when it wants to be bad, was a sobering thing.

 

 

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Here Is a Semi-complete list of Pediatric fatalities from Swine H1N1 that have occured since School Started Back in some states.  It just gives their Age and Sex, for privacy reasons. 

 

Aug 20 7M Elijay, GA

Aug 20 12F Palm Beach Co, FL

Aug 24 12M Batesburg-Leesville, SC

Aug 26 17F San Diego Co, CA

Aug 27 8M Hamilton, TN

Aug 27 13F Kiln, MS

Aug 28 14M Sonoma Co, CA

Aug 31 11M Scottsboro, AL

Aug 18F Seminole Co, FL

Aug inf Anchorage, AK

Sep 2 5M Davidson Co, TN

Sep 3 18F Slidell, LA

Sep 4 10M Fairbanks, AK

Sep 4 18M Houston Co, AL

Sep 4 chld Hawaii, HI

Sep 4 15M Vicksburg, MS

Sep 5 19F Denham Springs, LA

 

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So I keep my eyes open for changes in death rates, and I'm ready to stay home if I have to.  Right now, it kills only about 45-50 people per week in our country. That number is posted each Friday by the CDC. it was 522 last Friday. So this Friday it should still be under 600.

 

 

June 1 --------- 2 deaths

June 5 --------- 10 deaths

June 12 --------- 17 deaths

June 19 --------- 43 deaths

June 26 --------- 40 deaths

July 03 --------- 43 deaths

July 10 --------- 52 deaths

July 17 --------- 41 deaths

July 24 --------- 39 deaths

July 31 --------- 51 deaths

August 7 -------- 83 deaths

August 14 --------- 41 deaths

August 21--------- 45 deaths

August 28--------- 33 deaths

Sept. 04 --------- 38 deaths

Sept. 11 --------- 196 deaths.

 

For those still looking at totals, that brings our total from 593 on Sept. 4th, to 789 deaths on Sept. 11th.

(How ironic that the death toll jumps like that on Sept. 11th.)

 

The weekly average death toll for this virus more than quadrupled from last week's update to today's update. That's a significant jump in deaths in our nation.    

 

 

       

 

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This is probably already covered, but for those that do not already have them, get several N-95 masks.  The regular surgical masks will not stop virus'.  You can wear the N-95 until it  becomes contaminated.  Only way to judge whether or not your mask may be contaminated, is when you are in an enclosed area and their are obvious signs of sickness (sneezing, coughing, sweating, etc.) in the people around you.  At that point, the mask must be discarded and a new one worn.  Wash hands often during the day.  Especially when you are going to cook, eat, smoke, etc.  Carry hand sanitizer with you everywhere you go and use it.  Do not eat out, if at all possible and stay away from high population concentrations.  When you go to the grocery store and get the groceries home, it's probably a good idea to wash any cans and bottles brought home and sanitize any soft packaging.  Odds are, you won't be able to kill all virus' around you, but the more you do to protect yourself, the better off you and your family are going to be.  It's hard to keep it up I know, but do the best you can and pray and hope for the best.

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~ Hey folks, sorry I haven't been on in a while. I just want you people to know that this Flu business is very very real. I went all Summer without seeing a single case, then when school started (in August) it has exploded all over the South.

 

We see, on average almost 200 people every few days in the E.R. with flu-like symptoms. Our intensive care units are full of people on ventilators. We've sent two kids to Atlanta who were too sick for us to take care of.

 

Some of these sick folks have underlying health problems, some were previously healthy. The people who end up in intensive care are there for about three weeks, on EXTREME support. Some don't make it.  If this was 1918, this flu virus would be exacting the same toll that the one back then did. NO doubt. A lot of people are going into that Cytokine Storm effect that also happened in 1918, Some of them end up in multi-organ failure because their inflamatory systems just go haywire. It's like they self-destruct from the inside out. I've never seen anything like it.

 

But then.... most folks get over it at home without a problem.    :blink:

 

We have NO idea what makes some people go up in flames with this virus. But the ones who do, are tragically in the prime of their life. And THAT's what's so difficult about it.  sad042.gif

 

This virus is so wierd.  It can be mild (So it can spread far and wide) some people who have it don't even feel bad enough to stay home, and then some people it hits like true flu, knocking them on their butts, but they get over it, and then some folks catch it, and it's like their bodies just have the right "tinder" to ignite.

 

One very interesting thing about it is that we're finding the rapid flu test is practically worthless in detecting it. Some people will test positive for influenza A, but most will come back negative. Usually we don't even get a positive flu test until the person ends up on a ventilator, and we can get a sample of fluid from their lungs.

 

The rapid influenza test is a nasal swab, well H1N1 has that wierd Avian PB2 gene, and it doesn't grow good in the nose, it grows better in the lungs where it's nice and warm. So the nasal swab tests don't pick it up. So basically, if you have flu like symptoms, it's probably Swine regardless of what your test shows. The only people who get confirmed are the ones on Ventilators or the ones who are really really sick, and that's just to see if the virus is mutating or evolving.

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~ I asked Dr. Henry Niman (Founder of Recombinomics Website) if he still felt like this current virus was tracking with the 1918 virus. (He was quoted as saying that a few months ago). Here's his message back to me:

 

Actually, the sequences haven't changed as quickly as I initially expected, and I think that is because there really is no resistance. The virus can easily spread now throughout the human population. When more people get infected and have some immunity, or the vaccines come into play, the swine H1N1 will start evolving more quickly, and because it easily jumps back to swine as well as avian, it has a lot of options for change.

 

Swine into humans is a VERY dangerous situation, and the virus is right at a tipping point. A little more efficiency can create a large number of additional deaths, and that is what I expect.

 

The key concept is swine in human, which is what happened in 1918 and was an easy call. The 1918/avian story was pure politics (because of H5N1) and had no scientific basis. The 1918 flu was Swine, not Avian.

 

_________________

www.twitter.com/hniman

 

http://www.recombinomics.com/

 

Niman's work is pretty intriguing. He believes that influenza constantly evades our immune responses by elegant evolution, recombination, reassortment, that is organized and not random. He's says when influenza mutates it is far from random.  It's organized, and , he believes... predictable.  :thumbup:

 

"The recombination mechanism recycles polymorphisms in various combinations.  These polymorphisms have already been selected over millions of years, and the virus simply creates new combinations to evade immune surveillance or drug treatments.  Recombination follows specific rules that can be used to predict the sequence of emerging viruses."

 

 

 

 

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I worry every time I go to the grocery store or to church and hear people hacking and coughing and sneezing.  I know that I must be passing through a million germs.

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Am I reading this right?  Because from my calculations we've had 572 deaths reported in one week's time. We had a 936 total SINCE they began the "new" flu season counting. The previous week's total was just 364. That's 572 new deaths.

 

It took ALL Summer to climb up to the 500 death mark, NOW.... since School started, we've hit that mark in the new season in ONE week's time?    8|

 

 

 

That makes a whopping total (Since April) of 1,529 Deaths in our Nation, from Swine H1N1, with 572 of those deaths occuring in the week ending 9/19/09. I'm adding the total from the week ending August 29th to the new total since they started "re-counting" for the new flu season.

 

The total number of deaths before they went to this new system, was 593. Then we began a new flu season, and started counting anew.

 

Then the "new" total was 196 deaths reported on 9/11/09  (So obviously they aren't adding the 593 from over the Summer)

then the "new" total was 364 deaths  reported on 9/18/09

Now  the "new" total is 936 deaths reported today. (9/25/09)

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Well it has really come back with a vengence this round since school's opened. They have had a outbreak here. They are expecting the H1N1 vaccine next week I guess for the workers at the hospital. Had my Flu shot on Thursday. So that will be next I guess.

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New Polymorphism found in Swine H1N1 in Netherlands. PB2 E627K (also found in the 1918 virus.) Cause for concern.

 

The acquisition of E627K creates concern that the virus will evolve into a more lethal agent that will be associated with an increased case fatality rate in previously healthy young adults, as was seen in the 1918 Pandemic.

 

This is how the H1N1 Tamiflu Resistance Marker was found. First it showed up in a couple of sequences, then it started showing its face all over the world.

 

The PB2 E627K would allow this virus to replicate efficiently at lower temperatures in the nose, creating More viral load with coughs and sneezes, and becoming extremely contagious, and infecting with a much higer viral load, creating more severe illness. This polymorphism has been associated with some of the more deadly types of influenza including all previous Pandemic strains, and also including Highly pathogenic H5N1.

 

If this newest H1N1 mutation becomes a fixed trait, the results could be catastrophic.

 

Increased fatalities in previously healthy  school aged children in our country since the start of school, raise concern that this mutation is silently spreading beneath the radar due to decreased testing.

 

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09290902/H1N1_E627K_SS.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/09240903/H1N1_KY_KS_OK_Deaths.html

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This not good for sure. And like you said decreased testing for the H1N1 flu will have dire consequences for everyone. I know we have had cases here and have had a case where I am working at.

 

The H1N1 flu shots will be here this month I guess. But now that it has mutated who knows just how effective it will be.

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My youngest daughter was diagnosed with the swine flu a few weeks ago when she was sick . So we took all the precautions , washing hands etc. We stayed home when not at work and I'm glad to say she was over it in a week and no one else at home got it !

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This not good for sure. And like you said decreased testing for the H1N1 flu will have dire consequences for everyone. I know we have had cases here and have had a case where I am working at.

 

The H1N1 flu shots will be here this month I guess. But now that it has mutated who knows just how effective it will be.

 

Those strains were isolated in just a few folks. Either way, the shots should be effective. I'm taking mine for sure (whenever they offer it). I even took a seasonal shot today, and I NEVER do that.    working with swine flu patients has been a wake-up call to me. When you take a look at the BAD side of this virus, and you see first hand what it can do, you don't want to mess around with it. I have to work around it, so I'm getting whatever shot they will give me.  8| 

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My youngest daughter was diagnosed with the swine flu a few weeks ago when she was sick . So we took all the precautions , washing hands etc. We stayed home when not at work and I'm glad to say she was over it in a week and no one else at home got it !

 

That's great. My two girls had it (I believe). Right now, the virus doesn't transmit as easily as seasonal flu does. If that mutation becomes fixed, all of that will change. It will be very hard to work around it, or to have it in your home, and not catch it.

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I am like you don't ever get flu shots till this year. Last week I got one for work and will get the H1N1 shot when available.

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Concern was expressed by my doctor that those making the vaccine, were rushed into it and there was at least one study that found that the vaccine can cause the same symptoms as the desert storm sickness that the troops were and still are suffering from.  Being computer limited here, maybe someone with better access can verify this..

 

His advice to me (I have COPD) was to treat the swine flu with kit gloves and always be aware of my surroundings and keep up on proper flu hygene, etc and to wear a mask when in public places, but not to get the vaccine until it's been proven not to cause problems that are worse than getting the  flu.  His sources say that at this point in time, the regular flu is more of a threat to people like me, than the swine flu, which has been very mild up to this point.  He also made a point to say that you have to look at who is  benefitting from billions of people getting doses of the vaccine.  What a way to scam the entire world, than putting out a scare on the swine flu and then selling the people a vaccine, which may, or may not work.  Ultimately it's up to the individual, as to whether or not they get vaccinated for the H1N1.  Myself, I'll get my annual flu shot, but am going to take my docs warning on the new vaccine for the H1N1 virus and stay away from it.

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Just though I would share that my daughter in Idaho contacted me and let me know that she and the kids are sick with colds (cough and congestion), so I told her to go and get tested.  Also, her best friend just tested possitive for H1N1, so my daughter has her friends daughter, which I thought a nice gesture, but she isn't using her head at all.  Even if they don't have N1H1, the young girl she is watching has been exposed to it and my daughters families immune systems are already working on the cold.  H1N1 could easily infect them and start breaking down their immunity, which is what it does.  Very worried here, but nothing I can do but wait it out and pray for the best.

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