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antagonizer

Finally decided to get my gun license

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So as the title says I'm off to get my firearm license this weekend and I'm planing on becoming a gun owner.

 

Frankly, as a lifelong bowhunter, I have no idea what I should be looking for in a gun and I was hoping for some input. The biggest question is shotgun or rifle? Then there's caliber etc etc etc.

 

Any input?

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If I didnt have other guns and had to pick one of them and give the rest away it would have to be my Marlin Papoose .22 automatic stainless survival rifle.

 

http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firearms/SelfLoading/70PSS.asp

 

Along with a red dot scope.

 

http://www.opticsplanet.net/red-dot-scopes.html

 

Youve got light weight, stainless steel, light weight ammo, cheap ammo, plastic stock, Quick break down, carrying bag that floats and with an extra 10 shot clip youve got a lot of stopping power if you need it.

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i would suggest a 22 also, i have a savage 300 i do most of my hunting with.

 

a nice easy shotgun would also be good, but alot bulkier

 

swede is right, the marlin one there is small and light, a ruger 10/22 is a very nice choice for a bush gun, as well as a 22 mag lever action one marlin makes also.

 

i swear by my 22 as a bush gun, wont bring down big game, but will keep you fed for pennies and not alot of weight

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Huh. I would have thought a larger caliber would make more sense. I do love the lever action tho.

 

I normally hunt deer with my 75# flatbow. Would a .22 work for that large an animal?

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For deer your probably looking at a .308 30-30 lever action or 7 mm but don't take my word for it I don't know nothin about hunting as for the member that has the savage .22 how do you like it I ben looking at there model 350 sequrity shot gun with sights ben told for the price you can't beat anny of there products.

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I was thinking something like this, you know, for the zombie apocalypse lol;

 

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_10218075_175003000_175000000_175003000_175-3-0

 

Seriously tho, I'm going to max out my purchase at around $300. No $1200 guns for me.

 

As for a lever action .22 this was my choice;

 

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_10217916_175003000_175000000_175003000_175-3-0

 

Good, bad?

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You cant go wrong with a Henry. I have one in .22 mag. Extremely accurate.My dad usta say "it shoots straighter then you can shoot it"

 

You should get a scope their not that expensive. They are for a "grooved receiver"

 

They make a hammer extension when you put a scope on it>   http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=600061

 

That one is for a Marlin but it will probably fit if not search around for the right one or have the store see if the one they got fits.They also make a saddle ring for the side of the breach that looks nice. You just replace a screw thats already in it with the ring screw.

 

You might find a shot gun with an interchangeable choke or at least see what choke the Mossberg barrel has. For birds on the wing a full choke is a bit tight of a pattern. Remington makes a fine interchangeable choke shot gun pump.

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A constriction in the end of the barrel known as the choke is used to tailor the pattern for different purposes. Chokes may either be formed as part of the barrel at the time of manufacture, by squeezing the end of the bore down over a mandrel, or by threading the barrel and screwing in an interchangeable choke tube. The choke typically consists of a conical section that smoothly tapers from the bore diameter down to the choke diameter, followed by a cylindrical section of the choke diameter. Briley Manufacturing, a maker of interchangeable shotgun chokes, uses a conical portion about 3 times the bore diameter in length, so the shot is gradually squeezed down with minimal deformation. The cylindrical section is shorter, usually 0.6 to 0.75 inches (15 to 19 mm). The use of interchangeable chokes has made it easy to tune the performance of a given combination of shotgun and shotshell to achieve the desired performance.

 

The choke should be tailored to the range and size of the targets. A skeet shooter, shooting at close targets might use 127 micrometres (0.005 inches) of constriction to produce a 76 cm (30 inch) diameter pattern at a distance of 19 m (21 yards). A trap shooter, shooting at distant targets might use 762 micrometres (0.030 inches) of constriction to produce a 76 cm (30 inch) diameter pattern at 37 m (40 yards). Special chokes for turkey hunting, which requires long range shots at the small head and neck of the bird, can go as high as 1500 micrometres (0.060 inches). The use of too much choke and a small pattern increases the difficulty of hitting the target, the use of too little choke produces large patterns with insufficient pellet density to reliably break targets or kill game. "Cylinder barrels" have no constriction.

 

The basic reason for a choke is to maximize the number of pellets in a circle to cover the target. Now the next question is what size shot are you going to buy. No.8 or 7.5 is a tiny shot for flying targets like quail, doves etc. Ducks No.5 or 6 shot. Turkey or geese No.4 or 2. Coyotes and the like Double 00 buck or any of the buck shot. Deer and larger-- slugs. Your average maximum range is 40 yards but the new rifled deer slugs can push that range.

 

Then theres the magnum or "high brass" loads and the 3 inch magnum shells but your gun has to be chambered for that size of ammunition.

 

I recommend a box of 7.5. one 5 or 6, one No.2 and one box of slugs. Slugs usually dont come in a box but in smaller amounts.

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_slugs.htm

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My best advice is to NOT get something in some odd-ball caliber for which ammo is hard to find. Available ammo really defines the usefulness of a gun. I've killed deer with .22 magnums and I've watched my dad take the heads off squirrels with a Marlin .35 at the end of the day when we saw no deer and needed something to take home to eat. The .22WMA is a good all around round for game up to the size of deer not good at all for fowl unless you catch them sitting or swimming very slowly. Common consensus seems to be that because of the versatility the shot gun is the best all around survival fire arm but all have fire arms have their limitations. As with cutting tools a trio is preferred by most gun enthusiasts...handgun, rifle, and shotgun.

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Get a quality .22 long rifle or magnum, doesn't really matter (the mag gives you a bit more range and power) to start with, and NEVER get rid of it, for any reason.

 

You can carry 200 rounds of 22 ammo in your side pockets - no other caliber gives you that much capacity, and the cost can't be beat either. 

 

You can practice daily for chump change and this more than anything will hone your marksmanship skills.

 

You can buy a larger caliber for hunting larger game, and most states will require you to do exactly that, but hang on to that 22 as if your life depended on it, someday it may.  In a total loss of control scenario/breakdown of law and order, nobody will care what size bullet you kill a deer with, but I'll be willing to bet you'll do a better job of providing for yourself and family with small game procured with the .22

 

Another advantage is that a 22 is fairly quiet, especially with subsonic bullets (Remington, CCI, and Aguila all make these), and that's handy if you'd like to not draw attention to yourself or your hunting area.

 

As far as self defense goes, a rifle is far more accurate than a pistol and at greater ranges, and nobody in their right mind is going to stand up and start complaining that you are shooting at them with a 22 instead of a "real" gun.  Not my first choice for self defense but I'm not going to shout "okay, I give up, come and take my stuff" because all I have is a 22 on hand, either.

 

Hope I didn't come off as too opinionated here, but that first rifle or handgun should, IMHO, always, always, always be a 22 for the reasons stated and a few others I didn't think to mention.  And to repeat, don't EVER let anyone talk you into getting rid of a quality 22 rifle/pistol, unless you're trading up for higher quality.

 

I don't have a specific brand to recommend, although it's hard to go wrong with the Ruger 10/22 and matching it up with a Ruger 22/45 pistol might

be the alltime #1 combination of small arms in the world (so I guess I do have a recommendation after all - I think I've owned every brand of 22 rifle and pistol made in the last 20 years and the Rugers are hard to beat for the money - my first 22/45 is still performing flawlessly after well over 10,000 rounds.)

 

If you're strapped for cash, the Marlin model 60 is hard to beat too; I've seen 'em as low as 129 bucks at a few places.  I'd like to have a nickel for every 60 or 60A I've seen still punching dime-sized groups in targets in the 3rd or 4th decade of operation;  almost indestructible.

 

My $.02 - Steve

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I would also recommend getting a .22 to start with, with my choice being a .22 LR simply because ammo is so much cheaper.  Cheap ammo=lots of practice.  The Henry you mentioned would be excellent, as would a Ruger 10/22, Marlin Model 60, or even a good bolt action.  If necessary you'll be able to take small game and birds in an emergency.  As for big game, you can do it but you have to be a good enough shot to put a round into the brain--a shot behind the ear being the best.  It's a chancy thing, but it can be done if you can hit that spot.  Anything else could mean a wounded animal and a hard time finding it. 

 

If you decide on a shotgun, remember what Swede said about interchangeable chokes--they really add to the versatility of a shotgun.  With a good shotgun you can hunt everything within limitations.  Birds from grouse up through wild turkey and water fowl, small game, and with buckshot or slugs larger game. 

 

It will come down to your own comfort level, as well.  I don't know how much experience you have with firearms or fundamental marksmanship, but the .22 is the best firearm to learn with.

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Thanks for all the input guys. It'll be nice to walk into my local shop with some info under my belt.

 

It seem to be a consensus that the .22 mag is the way to go for cost effectiveness and the shotgun with a choke for firepower.

 

Bob, I really don't have any gun experience at all. I've been a bow hunter all of my life and never bothered to learn.  I can show you how to carve a 110# 'D' bow, or tune a flemish string on a crossbow, but for the life of me, I've only ever shot a gun 3 times in my life.  That pretty much equals 3 full bullets there. lol

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Forget the .22 mag for now and go with the .22 long rifle. Henry lever action is my favorite but the Rugger or the Marlin are fine. Stay with the brand names you cant go wrong and some day they will hold their value if you decide to trade up.

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.22 Long rifle is an awesome little round for versatility, much more versatile (more power/more range) in a bolt action rifle versus and auto loader but I have put a lot of rabbits and squirrels on the table with an old Marlin model 60 before we started branching out more on our own and both carrying hi-powered rifles and .22 pistols my brother and I used to hunt sort of as a team, one of us would take a hi-powered rifle and hunt for deer and the other would take an auto Marlin .22 or a Remington bolt action .22 and go for small game. We weren't hunting for sport, we were hunting so we could eat and usually whatever we brought back was what we ate that night. I remember a day when Glenn shot two rabbits with a 30-06, and I sniped three quail in a relatively open area from a small rise as they would fly and light in sort of a semi circle around my position. I missed the fourth as they ran into a thicket. The week before that had been pretty rough as it was wet and cold and windy and we had only eaten fish from our nets and muskrats from our traps and "beans and taters" and corn bread. I still remember the meal night with fried rabbit, fried quail, mashed potatoes and gravy and some carrots and corn bread...then lounging around by the wood stove and drifting off to sleep as the sleet started tapping on the tin roof again very fondly. The steaks we ate two days later after collecting the money for our hides weren't nearly as good.

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What do you guys think of the 'over/under' rifle shotgun combos? I have a chance to get my hands on one.

 

Had a Browning .222 over 20 gauge once...well it was my dads but I used it most. It was an awesome gun, been hoping to find something similar myself. Had another friend who had a .22 over .410, it was pretty sweet too. what are the ammos this one takes? If a decent brand, been treated well, and at a good price it's likely be a good choice no matter what they are, but some ammos are harder to find than others.

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So as the title says I'm off to get my firearm license this weekend and I'm planing on becoming a gun owner.

 

Frankly, as a lifelong bowhunter, I have no idea what I should be looking for in a gun and I was hoping for some input. The biggest question is shotgun or rifle? Then there's caliber etc etc etc.

 

Any input?

 

 

Ant:  Ya gots me confused.  Where inna world do you live that you have to have a fargin license for a shotgun or a rifle?

 

There is a sound reason to know the answer... If you are in England, for instance, you do NOT want a long gun (eg:  30.06 rifle).  No place to shoot the sucker.  

 

For a first gun, my Daddy gave me great advice sixty years ago:  Get a single-shot .22.  There are several sooper good reasons:

 

1.  They are quite accurate.

2.  They are INexpensive.  ($149.99 new (the one shown below), cheaper used <-- and used is just fine)

3.  The ammo is cheap <-- that's lower than "inexpensive".  You can shoot all fargin day for five bucks. ($15.47 for 1000 rounds)

4.  Having a single shot teaches you to make your first shot count <-- which is ALL YOU EVER GET while hunting.

5.  They do not require all of Wyoming to fire it in.

6.  They are not loud.

 

This is an H&R available from Gander Mountain:

422313_M1.jpg

 

Gotta warn ya, though... it is a slippery slope.  I saved up my pennies for a year (my Daddy gave me permission to do so on my eighth birthday) and bought a J.C. Higgins single shot .22 for $10.95 new at Monkey Wards.

 

Yeah... and if you ask me how many pistols I have... I dunno.  Somewhere between 15 and 20, I think.  Rifles?  Oh... mebbe a dozen.  Shotguns?  Yup.  (*sigh*)

 

:)

 

A GREAT place to look for used firearms... just click here:  www.cheaperthandirt.com/

LATE EDIT:  Gander Mountain stores (look 'em up on the Net) will match/beat ANY other supplier.  One of the most expensive places to buy firearms is Bass Pro Shops.  Check them out, then go to Gander Mountain with the Bass Pro Shop advert and get the same gun cheaper.

 

LATE LATE EDIT:  ALWAYS consider ammo cost.  My turkey shotgun costs $1.50 per shot.  EEEK.  My Weatherby 30.06 costs $1.50 per shot.  EEEK.  My 1891 Mausers cost .40 per shot.  My .22's cost 2 cents a shot.  WOW.

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Belatedly, I note that SSouther has given essentially the same advice as I did.

 

Regarding how long a .22 will last...

 

My Daddy bought his first gun (I have given it to my eldest son) second-hand in 1917.  He paid $2 for it.  Still shoots fine.  It is an 1895 Winchester single shot .22...

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Walt is right about used guns especially .22s. The big bores especially the rocker launchers like the .243, 22-250, 220 swift can burn out the breech if shot a lot. You can tell a good used gun simply by its appearance. The single shots like Walt says are not shot a million times because of the time it takes to reload after each shot. Automatics usually have had a ton of ammo run through them.

 

Good advice from Unca Walt about looking at used guns. Watch your local shopper for some really good local deals.

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Not to seem too new, but what's a choke?

 

Here's a quick and dirty way to tell the choke on a twelve gauge:

 

Take an ordinary dime.  If it fits into the barrel, you have a modified choke (or rarely, sumpin called "improved cylinder).  If it does NOT fit in the end of the barrel, you have a full choked barrel.

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Huh. I would have thought a larger caliber would make more sense. I do love the lever action tho.

 

I normally hunt deer with my 75# flatbow. Would a .22 work for that large an animal?

 

Here's one I gotta step in quickly about!!!

 

If you are in a survival situation, you can hunt Goliath Polar Bears with a BB gun.  OK... that's one end of the spectrum.

 

Not a survival situation?  NEVER hunt deer with a .22.  You will only hurt the animal. It would be totally unsporting. In deer season, in many states it is actually ILLEGAL to be afield with a .22. (Virginia comes to mind...)

 

The all-around most useful calibre is the 30.06.  Common round found all over the planet.  PERFECT for deer. And lotsa other things (like wild hawgs, gators, schoolbuses,robbers...)

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Thanks for all the input guys. It'll be nice to walk into my local shop with some info under my belt.

 

It seem to be a consensus that the .22 mag is the way to go for cost effectiveness and the shotgun with a choke for firepower.

 

 

It seem to be a consensus that the .22 mag is the way to go for cost effectiveness...

 

 

Dangit!  NO THEY AINT NO CONSENSUS TO THAT PAIR OF STATEMENTS.  Unless it is that they are both flat wrong.

 

Forty round box of 22 Mag bullets:  $12.66  <-- That, Pilgrim is 32 cents PER SHOT.

FIFTY round box of 22 Long Rifle bullets: $2.26 <-- That is 4 cents a shot.  MUCH cheaper than that if you buy a brick (1000 rds)

 

22 mags are EIGHT TIMES MORE FARGIN EXPENSIVE.

 

Click and see fer yeself:

 

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/default.php?cPath=10480_14627_14649_14654

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