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One last suggestion this evening.  I personally like Sorel-style rubber bottomed, leather topped, winter boots (LL Bean makes a good quality of these too).  These are the ones with the thick wool felt liners(hard to find as many have gone to the hi-tec stuff) in about an 80 per cent wool-20 per cent other mix.  Bring two pairs of liners and alternate them, allowing one to freeze, beat, and dry the next day, and the dry one to spend the night with you in your sleeping bag.  Also one small pair of slip-on shoes (bought big enough for heavy and sometimes a double pair of socks) of some kind so that you can schlep around camp (where it's stomped down) while liners are drying.

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A few small items that I have learned. Layer inside your bag just as would your clothes. 2-3 light weight fleece blankets trap more body heat then one thick blanket. One of my fleece layers is a fleece sleepin bag with a zipper that I picked up at Walmart. I just it as a liner.

 

A keychain flashlight attached to a bag zipper is great because it won't get lost inside your bag. If you have clothes on with a belt loop it's even better because you don't have to shift your arms to access it. 

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When I had knee replacement a couple of years ago I had to use a hospital urinal and found out this is a great addition to camping. With a great deal of squirming around in your sleeping bag you can actually avoid getting out of bed to pee. Maybe some younger smaller guys can use another kind of bottle or maybe in a pinch cut a larger (much larger for some)  :P  opening in a plastic bottle but sharp edges could be a problem.  :scared:

 

The urinal has a tight lid to close after using that makes it some thing to add to your camping gear.

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Sportsman's guide camo bivvy shell. Not 100% waterproof as advertised but I didn't expect to be so, no problem there. It is fairly water resistant and it does breath. And it retains a little bit of heat.

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the worst thing about winter camping is having to crawl out of a warm sleeping bag to piss. holding it uses body heat and will chill you by morning. i use a wide mnouth nalgene bottle(cause i have to :hugegrin: i screw the lid back on super tight and i have a new heat sourse to put by my feet. yes it might seam gross but it does make for a nice warm  adition at 3:00 in the morning.

 

~ So basically, the more beer you drink while camping...  the warmer your feet are?   :unsure:

 

 

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Great stuff, Pete and Swede!

 

Layer inside your bag just as would your clothes.

 

When Tess and I bought our mateable very cold weather bags they were very expensive.  So we bought what was called a non-woven liner that could be pulled out and washed but weighed very little.  I think the polar fleece, which I don't think was available back then, would make an excellent replacement.  This will make those expensive bags last longer between washings and I think would last longer overall.

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A few detours aside I'm a having a blast learning all of this.

 

I have a Sea to Summit bag liner that I swapped out for a fleece sleeping bag from Walmart. More bulk then the liner but it zips, which for me means it's easier to get in and out of as opposed to the Sea to summit which somehow ends up wadded up at the bottom of my mummy bag. The fleece sleeping bag also stays put where a blanket slides around.

 

I slept inside last night so as to focus on the padding underneath. If I can get enough back and neck support then I won't roll around. Whats been happening is that I can't get comfortable and I end up face down inside the mummy or with the hood open. Last night I used my laundry as padding underneath the bivvy with a dip for my butt and slept well.

 

 

 

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Air mattresses work but it seems by morning enough air goes out so Im back on the ground plus you have to have something under the mattress to keep the cold from coming right through. You have to buy a good one to keep you off the ground. Ive never tried a wool blanket folded up under one but I have tried a canvas. Ive found a canvas over me is best but the best is a foam mattress. There pretty bulky for packing however if you get one thick enough to work.

 

When we were moose hunting in Saskatchewan my friend who lives there just put a canvas on the ground and laid his sleeping bag on one side. When he got in he threw the other half of the canvas over him. Of course up there its moss a foot thick in most places and you dont need a mattress.

 

The princess and the pee principle (look it up) comes into play. A tiny rock/lump under your bed feels like a boulder by morning.

 

I have a queen sized air mattress that gets you up off the ground by a foot and a half but it takes a battery powered air pump to blow up and it weighs about 25 pounds. Great for car camping where you can drive to your camp sight (my favorite next to Best Western).  :P

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Muddy Pete said:   

Last night I used my laundry as padding underneath

 

Other than a couple at the very beginning, on Tess and My winter camps we have had a Eureka timberline to sleep in.  In this case, since you usually have extra clothing, we'd use the excess under us for padding along with a Z-rest closed cell foam.  If we can get them in, we've also used what are called "skins" in the automotive upholstery business.  They are about one and a half inches thick fairly dense open cell foam, but they have a "skin" on one side.  Of course, the skin goes down, then the z-rest, then the clothing to make a dip for either hip or rear, depending on the way one sleeps.  One thing about foam is that even though it is usually bulky, it is light.  We've lusted after the therma rest pads, but we've never taken the plunge and bought one.

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Muddy Pete said:    

Other than a couple at the very beginning, on Tess and My winter camps we have had a Eureka timberline to sleep in.  In this case, since you usually have extra clothing, we'd use the excess under us for padding along with a Z-rest closed cell foam.  If we can get them in, we've also used what are called "skins" in the automotive upholstery business.  They are about one and a half inches thick fairly dense open cell foam, but they have a "skin" on one side.  Of course, the skin goes down, then the z-rest, then the clothing to make a dip for either hip or rear, depending on the way one sleeps.  One thing about foam is that even though it is usually bulky, it is light.  We've lusted after the therma rest pads, but we've never taken the plunge and bought one.

ive got two thermorests(one ultralite) and 3 generic brand thermarest pads. once i bought one i never went back to anything else. most people put to much air in them and that makes them hard and uncomfortable. after they self inflate put a breath or two in it.lay on it on your side. open the valve untill your hip just touches the ground. close the valve and enjoy the best nights sleep you can get on the ground. i know there expensive but well worth it. out of all my camp gear its my one peice of gear i couldnt live without.

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Yeah, razor, I agree that most put too much air in the air mattress style of pad.  When the "skins" wear out, I think we'll replace them with the thermarest.

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my one peice of gear i couldnt live without.

 

I'm lucky that I can sleep on almost anything, but Tess can not, so it is important to us to have the comfort level you require when camping.  If you don't get the sleep, it is a miserable trip.

 

One might also give some thought to staying up during a very cold night and feed the fire, and then sleep during the day when it is warmer in the tent, especially if it is sunny.

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Per request a gear list. Part 1? Shelter and packs

 

My name is Muddy Pete and I am a gear pig. I'd rather shoulder the extra weight on the trail and suffer in silence then not have something I need and suffer more.

 

Pack is a Texsport external pack frame with a Mexpedition Merlin. With the extra winter gear I chose to strap everything onto the frame. The Merlin fit right into the spot behind my shoulders and is where I stored my clothing. The Merin shoulder straps are threaded around the pack frame and act as the shoulder strap. If I can find the original shoulder straps that came with the Texsport, they would be more comforatable.

 

For bumming around I'm using a Ribz pack. That will be my day pack and has my primary go gear.

 

Sleep system Mountainsmith mummy bag rated to -10. Ozark Trails fleece sleeping bag, extra fleece blanket. Bivvy shell from Sportsman guide. Texport inflatable pad, Texsport closed cell pad, ground tarp.

 

Shelter is either a camp hammock and 12x12 Kelty Noah's tarp or a Kelty Crestone solo tent (both go in the trunk when I get there we'll finalize the camp area. But both set-ups are organized so I can grab the one I want and go. 

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Per request a gear list. Part 1? Shelter and packs

 

My name is Muddy Pete and I am a gear pig. I'd rather shoulder the extra weight on the trail and suffer in silence then not have something I need and suffer more.

 

Pack is a Texsport external pack frame with a Mexpedition Merlin. With the extra winter gear I chose to strap everything onto the frame. The Merlin fit right into the spot behind my shoulders and is where I stored my clothing. The Merin shoulder straps are threaded around the pack frame and act as the shoulder strap. If I can find the original shoulder straps that came with the Texsport, they would be more comforatable.

 

For bumming around I'm using a Ribz pack. That will be my day pack and has my primary go gear.

 

Sleep system Mountainsmith mummy bag rated to -10. Ozark Trails fleece sleeping bag, extra fleece blanket. Bivvy shell from Sportsman guide. Texport inflatable pad, Texsport closed cell pad, ground tarp.

 

Shelter is either a camp hammock and 12x12 Kelty Noah's tarp or a Kelty Crestone solo tent (both go in the trunk when I get there we'll finalize the camp area. But both set-ups are organized so I can grab the one I want and go. 

sounds like your well prepped there muddy. i started camping in a hamock tarp system 2 years ago and almost never use a tent anymore (i have 6 of them now, im a gear junkie myself) dont ever worrie about going altralite, its a matter of confort and $$$$. if you spend the cash you can cut alot of weight. but with a little experience you will be able to cut weight without spending alot and cutting out confort.  the best thing you can do is when you get home, open up your pack and wright down everything you used and everything you didnt. if you took 8 oz. of soap but only used 2, 3 pair of shorts but only used one, etc. then the next time you pack you will have a better idea of what you actually need for a weekend pack in trip. after a while you will have it down to a compleat science.

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Yup. I have all my gear on the word processor file. Each trip has a complete list of what I took and what I used. What worked and what didn't.

 

This list (I'll get the rest up as fast I can) was based on the nights I slept outside on the back deck. This was the sleep system that I used and was most comfortable in. 

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Gear list part 2. Or part 1.5

 

I carry a Adventure Medical kits pocket medic in my coat packet.

 

Primary First aid kit. Homemade One zip loc freezer bag. Assorted items from the drug store

 

 

Alcohol antiseptic pads - First aid kit (2)

 

Antibiotic ointment ½oz tube - First aid kit (1)

 

Cotton balls - First aid kit

 

Tincture of iodine 2% Band-aid™ assorted sizes - First aid kit

 

Advil™ pain killers - Money belt (2)

 

Bayer™ aspirin pain reliever - money belt

 

Bayer™ aspirin pain reliever (bottle)*

 

Bens™ insect repellent 1.25 oz - Ribz

 

Blistex™ lip balm - First aid kit

 

Chap Stick™ - Ribz

 

Coghlan's™ snake bite egg #1 - Ribz

 

Dr Scholl’s™ mole skin - First aid kit (homemade) #5, Ribz

 

Emergen-C™ energy booster mix 1000mg (tangerine) - First aid kit

 

Emergen-C™ energy booster mix 1000mg (raspberry) - Ribz

 

Farnam™ Wonder dust blood clot powder - 35mm film canister

 

Goody’s™ cool orange powdered pain killers - First aid kit (1)

 

Goody’s™ PM powdered pain killers - Ribz

 

Hart™ hydrocortisone cream packet - money belt

 

J&J™ gauze roll 2”x 7.5” - First aid kit (1)

 

J&J™ gauze pads 3”x3” - First aid kit (2)

 

J&J™ gauze pads 2”x2” - First aid kit (2)

 

Katadyn™ tablets - First aid kit (2) money belt

 

Misc tools - Ribz

 

Motrin™ bottle - Ribz

 

Motrin™ capsules

 

New skin™ liquid bandage 1oz - Ribz

 

No-Doz™ alertness aid - Ribz

 

Nuun™ electrolyte tablets

 

Purell™ hand sanitizer - Ribz,

 

Repel™ insect repellant .475oz

 

Trojan™ non lubed condom - First aid kit (1)

 

Vaseline™ tube 

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Gear list part 3.

 

Clothes

 

Ace™ leather work gloves

 

Army BDU shirt (camo)

 

Bandana (mixed colors) - multi use item

 

Buff™ performance headwear (blue) 

 

Coleman™ emergency poncho (orange)

 

Columbia™ Titanium short sleeved button down shirt (blue)

 

Columbia™ Titanium long sleeved button down shirt (grey)

 

Columbia™ TM 1021 Venture Titanium vest 1.2lbs

 

Columbia™ GRT short sleeved shirt (orange)

 

DriDucks™ rain gear

 

Eagle Creek™ money belt (black)

 

Fox River™ 4101 X-Static (silver) sock liners

 

Jake & Co™ long johns

 

LL Bean™ wool sweater w hood (white)

 

Montrail™ Traverse hiking shoes

 

North Face™ Hy Vent nylon wind breaker (gray)

 

North Face™ cap  Merlin

 

Outfitters Ridge™ fingerless mitten gloves (black)

 

Patagonia™ wick proof T-shirt (blue)

 

Pepper Skins™ long johns (black) 100% polyester

 

REI™ wick proof shirt (gray)

 

REI™ All season Ragg wool socks (beige)

 

REI™ polar tech vest black

 

REI™ MTS mesh wick proof muscle shirt (black)

 

SolaTec™ Aerovest *Test*

 

Sterns™ poncho (blue)

 

Sterns™ poncho (camo)

 

Sterns™ nylon rain pants (black)

 

T-Shirt with humorous slogan about squirrels

 

Wigwam™ 40 below thermal socks green

 

Winter clothes:

 

Faded Glory™ Peruvian knit hat (black)

 

Hot Fingers™ winter gloves nylon polyester (black)

 

Knights Ridge™ green winter parka

 

Misc knit cap (black)

 

Outdoor Research™ Rocky Mt. High gators (black)

 

Scarf

 

Winter gear:

 

LL Bean™ snow shoes

 

Yak Trax™ 1 pair medium

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whatever happened to going into the woods with just a knife, a canteen and some dental floss? awsome list muddy. you definatly have all your bases covered. and everyone should have a t-shirt with a funny slogan about sqirrles. that rocks!

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POINTY OBJECTS*POINTY OBJECTS*POINTY OBJECTS*

 

Might account for the weight issue.

 

Big bore™ .675 big bore blowgun in case the squirrels have to be taken out quietly

 

Slingshot /ammo/ M&M peanuts (food, bait and slingshot ammo)

 

Choppy-choppy:

 

Cold Steel™ Trench Hawk

 

Marbles™ camp cleaver jungle machete

 

Knives:

 

ARS™ Dog tag knife

 

ECC™ Card Knife + 4” Gorilla tape

 

Lone Wolf Knives™ Harsey T-1 folder

 

Mora of Sweden™ Clipper

 

SOG Fusion SEAL Revolver

 

SOG™ Power Lock S60 multi tool

 

Spyderco™ Cricket

 

Swiss Tech™ Utili-key #02 -

 

TOPS™ ALRT #01

 

TOPS™ Hoodlum blade #14

 

Victorinox™ Rambler pocket knife (blue)

 

Knives Misc:

 

CRKT™ Biotac knife rig

 

Smith’s™ Pocket Pal combo sharpener (black)

 

 

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POINTY OBJECTS*POINTY OBJECTS*POINTY OBJECTS*

 

Might account for the weight issue.

 

Big bore™ .675 big bore blowgun in case the squirrels have to be taken out quietly

 

Slingshot /ammo/ M&M peanuts (food, bait and slingshot ammo)

 

Choppy-choppy:

 

Cold Steel™ Trench Hawk

 

Marbles™ camp cleaver jungle machete

 

Knives:

 

ARS™ Dog tag knife

 

ECC™ Card Knife + 4” Gorilla tape

 

Lone Wolf Knives™ Harsey T-1 folder

 

Mora of Sweden™ Clipper

 

SOG Fusion SEAL Revolver

 

SOG™ Power Lock S60 multi tool

 

Spyderco™ Cricket

 

Swiss Tech™ Utili-key #02 -

 

TOPS™ ALRT #01

 

TOPS™ Hoodlum blade #14

 

Victorinox™ Rambler pocket knife (blue)

 

Knives Misc:

 

CRKT™ Biotac knife rig

 

Smith’s™ Pocket Pal combo sharpener (black)

 

 

sweet collection pete! but yeah, unless your "gear testing" all those pointy objects it might be overkill. 99% of basic camp choirs can be done with 1...3-5 inch blade. but im still going to drool over your pointy objects though :dribble:

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sweet collection pete! but yeah, unless your "gear testing" all those pointy objects it might be overkill. 99% of basic camp choirs can be done with 1...3-5 inch blade. but im still going to drool over your pointy objects though :dribble:

 

Lots of gear testing. No I would not haul that much stuff out on a normal trip

 

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He didn't mention the team of Sherpa's he has to haul it for him though  :P

 

 

MP, advil and Motrin are the same just different names. Both Ibuprofen. You could also get by with either the Bayer Aspirin or Goody's powder.

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